Fact Check? Anybody?

As the New Hampshire Primary inches closer and another round of Republican debates have come to an end, the news media has invariably published a barrage of  ”Fact Check” articles that seek to discern fact from fiction when it comes to the claims of the Republican candidates. One glaringly false claim that has been left out by most mainstream media fact checkers in their post-debate “fact checks” has been the fringe-propagated assertion that President Obama is a “socialist” who seeks to instate “socialism” in the United States. Here’s a sampling of what the GOP candidates said in the last two New Hampshire debates:

Mitt Romney (ABC Debate):

We have a president who has an entirely different view. He wants us to turn into a European-style welfare state and have government take from some to give to others. That will kill the ability of America to provide for a prosperous future, to secure our freedom, and to give us the — the rights which have been in our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. I believe in an America that’s based upon opportunity and freedom, not President Obama’s social welfare state.

Newt Gingrich (ABC Debate):

Well, look, I think that’s a good message and I agree with him [Romney]. A — a little bit harsh on President Obama, who, I’m sure in his desperate efforts to create a radical European socialist model, is sincere.

Rick Perry (NBC Debate):


I make a very proud statement and of fact that–we have a president that’s a socialist.  I don’t think our founding fathers wanted America to be a socialist country.  So I disagree with that– premise that– somehow or another that– President Obama reflects our founding fathers.  He doesn’t.  He talks about having a more powerful, more centralized, more consuming and costly federal government.

Rick Santorum (NBC Debate):

 Well, I– I– I think I’m just answering your question.  Maybe– maybe we’re not communicating well.  But I just talked about– that– medical– health savings account is an anti-socialistic idea to try to build a bottom-up, consumer-based economy– in health care.

So far, we’ve seen none of these candidates provide any actual evidence beyond shallow rhetoric that substantiates that Obama is actually a “socialist” or that his policies will lead to a “European-style” socialist welfare state. Worse, while we’ve heard these Republican candidates continually make “socialist” claims, we have seen little movement by the press to scrutinize them.

Moderator David Gregory, to his credit, did ask Rick Santorum whether his support for the the Prescription Drug Benefit program, a social program, was equivalent to himself being a “socialist.” But beyond this, there has been a noticeable gap in the news media asking the GOP candidates to back up their claims.

 

UPDATE (10:15pm): While I have reservations about PolitiFact’s sometimes iffy decisions, I noticed this evening that they gave a “Pants on Fire” rating to Rick Perry’s claim from last night’s debate that Obama is a “Socialist.” Their conclusion:

There are plenty of ways to have a meaningful, substantive conversation about the differences of the Republicans and Democrats in tax policy, economics and the role of government. But it’s simply preposterous for Perry — and Gingrich — to refer to Obama’s policies as socialism or to say he is a socialist. Obama’s policies may have expanded government, but they don’t justify this ridiculous hyperbole. We’re reaching for the matches — Pants on Fire!

Unfortunately, besides briefly mentioning Gingrich, they seem to be taking a blind eye to the fact that Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney have made the exact same claims.

Comments

  1. JimC146 says:

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

    Definition of SOCIALISM
    1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

    2 : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

    3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

    Can *any* of Obama policies or stated goals fit into one of those 3 definitions? *HINT* Yes.

    Although not openly socialist, Obama’s policies do fit a pattern of trying to through policy, equalize wealth across the population via the Government, i.e. Universal Healthcare, Taxing the rich to pay for entitlements for the poor, etc. These are facts which do fit the definition of socialist agenda. Now does that make Obama a socialists? Well I think it is just semantics at this point.

  2. jay says:

    Jim,

    This conversation about whether or not Obama or other liberal policies are “socialist” is a waste of time and distracts from the larger philosophical discussion about the scope of government. Discounting government action because they are “socialist” in nature is a pejorative simplification rather than a true analysis of the virtues or vices of that program. It is a truly irrelevant descriptor.

  3. thomas says:

    I can’t even begin to understand what sort of poor education, what sort of malnourished intellect and impoverished understanding could be behind anybody thinking that Obama is a socialist. I mean, just being a lazy observer of current events doesn’t even begin to explain it. You have to have some pretty bedrock problems in the foundation of your understanding of the world to get to the point where you’re listening to these candidates and nodding your head, saying, “Yes, Obama is a socialist.” You almost feel sorry for these candidates, the indignity of fighting each other for the loyalty of low-information bigots.

  4. JimC146 says:

    Ok Jay/Thomas, what would make Obama a socialist. What defining criteria in his agenda/policy would make him a socialist?

    If not a socialist, what then? There are millions of Americans who feel he is either a socialist or has socialist leanings, so dismissing them as deficient or uneducated is foolish itself. If Obama is a socialist, why do you care? If he’s not, then he has a real image problem and the distinctions need to be made that differentiates him from a socialist in the common view.

    Pooh-Poohing it away is cute but it is a real concern of a lot of Americans and it isn’t going to go away by simply dismissing the concern…if people are uneducated, then start with me, explain to me how Obama *is not* a socialist or have socialist leanings?

  5. jay says:

    Jim,

    I didn’t say he wasn’t, I said it was a meaningless descriptor. It’s like criticizing Social Security because its a “ponzi scheme.” Except in that case, not only was the classification incorrect but it was equally meaningless. Even if I am VERY critical of social security it has nothing to do with this kind of simplistic classification. Again, a true evaluation of the virtues and the vices of the program is the only way to get past the rhetoric (on both sides).

  6. JimC146 says:

    Well, it is not meaningless to a lot of Americans so if it is inaccurate then somebody needs to explain why. I know Obama isn’t a full blown socialist outwardly but his policy of expanding government entitlement programs (ObamaCare, etc), expanding Federal regulations on business and the environment, wanting to pay for everything off the backs of the wealthy and make more people dependent upon government handouts, expanding the workforce thru Government jobs instead of private sector, and so on and so on….many people feel this is a move towards socialism and that’s a fact.

  7. jay says:

    Jim,

    Please read what I am writing closely if you are going to choose to comment. “Meaningless” and “inaccurate” are entirely different words and I choose my words carefully.
    Describing Obama as a socialist is meaningless because its colloquial usage does not distinguish his philosophy from others. The differences between him and Romney, for instance, are much more nuanced. One is not simply socialist and the other is not. Hence, meaningless, rather than potentially inaccurate (based on colloquial usage).

  8. Mark says:

    I think what we are seeing here is an attempt to coalesce the GOP’s ideology that is factioning amongst the neocons, paleocons, and libertarians under a broad anti-Obama sentiment that I think is brought on by our need as a country adapt to an exponentially changing world.
    Using the claim that since many people believe something it must have merit is an incredibly poor argument. Otherwise Twilight would be considered one of the greatest works of modern literature. Fortunately it is not.
    Now if we want to have an argument about whether, for example, extending government influence to protect the environment is better for the overall health of our country, but it’s much harder to rally a base around that than inflammatory rhetoric.

  1. [...] here for Related LinksAmerican Conservative News Politics & Opinion – The Land of the Free1115.org (function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) [...]

  2. [...] Mouse here for Related LinksUse the internet the newest oily fat subject to coconuts1115.org Suicide Bombers Of The Future (function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = [...]

  3. [...] fact that his crowning achievement as Governor of Massachusetts was the blueprint for Obama’s supposed march towards ”European-style social welfare.” His fingerprints are everywhere. [...]