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	<title>Comments on: Whole Lot Of Lyin&#8217; Goin&#8217; On</title>
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	<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/</link>
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		<title>By: effay</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76137</link>
		<dc:creator>effay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76137</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m gonna go ahead and put this one in the win column if nobody minds (to use logic).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m gonna go ahead and put this one in the win column if nobody minds (to use logic).</p>
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		<title>By: Nogburt</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76109</link>
		<dc:creator>Nogburt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76109</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure that effay was basing any of his arguments on the laffer curve (which as I&#039;ve noted above is indeed absurd). 

I thought what was at issue was whether or not it is better in particular instances to cut particular spending items or cut particular taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that effay was basing any of his arguments on the laffer curve (which as I&#8217;ve noted above is indeed absurd). </p>
<p>I thought what was at issue was whether or not it is better in particular instances to cut particular spending items or cut particular taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76108</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76108</guid>
		<description>&gt;I invite you to actually dispute my logic then.

we have.  you lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>I invite you to actually dispute my logic then.</p>
<p>we have.  you lost.</p>
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		<title>By: effay</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76105</link>
		<dc:creator>effay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76105</guid>
		<description>I invite you to actually dispute my logic then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I invite you to actually dispute my logic then.</p>
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		<title>By: Nogburt</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76104</link>
		<dc:creator>Nogburt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76104</guid>
		<description>-I don&#039;t know John McCain but (as we all already agree) I think it would not be wholly wrong of me to extrapolate that he isn&#039;t the most outwardly honest of men. He was a &quot;moderate&quot; (or so many said) then a conservative then I don&#039;t know what. It seems to me as though he wants all of the authoritarian rightists to think he&#039;s one of them without being viewed as one by the rest of us. I don&#039;t think any of us think he tells &quot;the public&quot; &quot;the truth&quot;.

-The Laffer Curve is an interesting intellectual construction with little practical value. Any &quot;neo-con&quot; who wants to base tax policy on the absurd idea that they can apply economic calculation to anti-economic institutions is (at best) misguided.

-I don&#039;t know of anyone who, all other things being equal, has a great love of government debt. If the government folks are debt there are some different ways that the government folks can do to get out.

1) Reducing Spending
2) Raising Taxes
3) Sovereign Default
4) Debt Repudiation [similar to 3]

So which method or combination of methods is the best for the cases at hand?

It seems as though we are asking whether or not we ought to raise taxes or cut spending first in these cases. I think this would depend on whether or not the spending is worth the taxes necessary to sustain it. 
Cutting out the Invasion of Syracuse... I mean the Occupation of Iraq might moot a lot of the disputes about repealing tax cuts versus lowering other present spending. Additionally, other military spending could be reduced if we decided that a massive aggression-oriented military wasn&#039;t necessary. It might not even be necessary to cut into popular conservative government programs like social security, medicaid, and welfare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-I don&#8217;t know John McCain but (as we all already agree) I think it would not be wholly wrong of me to extrapolate that he isn&#8217;t the most outwardly honest of men. He was a &#8220;moderate&#8221; (or so many said) then a conservative then I don&#8217;t know what. It seems to me as though he wants all of the authoritarian rightists to think he&#8217;s one of them without being viewed as one by the rest of us. I don&#8217;t think any of us think he tells &#8220;the public&#8221; &#8220;the truth&#8221;.</p>
<p>-The Laffer Curve is an interesting intellectual construction with little practical value. Any &#8220;neo-con&#8221; who wants to base tax policy on the absurd idea that they can apply economic calculation to anti-economic institutions is (at best) misguided.</p>
<p>-I don&#8217;t know of anyone who, all other things being equal, has a great love of government debt. If the government folks are debt there are some different ways that the government folks can do to get out.</p>
<p>1) Reducing Spending<br />
2) Raising Taxes<br />
3) Sovereign Default<br />
4) Debt Repudiation [similar to 3]</p>
<p>So which method or combination of methods is the best for the cases at hand?</p>
<p>It seems as though we are asking whether or not we ought to raise taxes or cut spending first in these cases. I think this would depend on whether or not the spending is worth the taxes necessary to sustain it.<br />
Cutting out the Invasion of Syracuse&#8230; I mean the Occupation of Iraq might moot a lot of the disputes about repealing tax cuts versus lowering other present spending. Additionally, other military spending could be reduced if we decided that a massive aggression-oriented military wasn&#8217;t necessary. It might not even be necessary to cut into popular conservative government programs like social security, medicaid, and welfare.</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76103</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76103</guid>
		<description>&gt;My laughter was in response to the idea that you would attempt to use the views of Bushâ€™s â€œeconomistsâ€ as evidence to support your argument.

her point was that &lt;em&gt;everyone&lt;/em&gt; save art laffer and larry kudlow knows that the laffer curve is absurd.

and your &quot;logic&quot; needs some serious work.  it&#039;s always &quot;you either need to believe x or y&quot; yet it&#039;s all false choices and straw men.  what is it you think you&#039;re doing here?

are we in for another &quot;i win&quot; post?  you don&#039;t even know what game is being played.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>My laughter was in response to the idea that you would attempt to use the views of Bushâ€™s â€œeconomistsâ€ as evidence to support your argument.</p>
<p>her point was that <em>everyone</em> save art laffer and larry kudlow knows that the laffer curve is absurd.</p>
<p>and your &#8220;logic&#8221; needs some serious work.  it&#8217;s always &#8220;you either need to believe x or y&#8221; yet it&#8217;s all false choices and straw men.  what is it you think you&#8217;re doing here?</p>
<p>are we in for another &#8220;i win&#8221; post?  you don&#8217;t even know what game is being played.</p>
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		<title>By: effay</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76102</link>
		<dc:creator>effay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76102</guid>
		<description>Well, the Laffer Curve alleges that there is a revenue maximizing tax rate somewhere between 0% and 100%. So, if you don&#039;t believe the Laffer Curve and you believe that &quot;tax cuts decrease revenue,&quot; then you must believe that the revenue maximizing rate of taxation is 100%.

I don&#039;t dispute that President Bush&#039;s &quot;economists&quot; have said exactly what you say they have. My laughter was in response to the idea that you would attempt to use the views of Bush&#039;s &quot;economists&quot; as evidence to support your argument.

And censorship. Media censorship happens when you tell the media they can&#039;t distribute the news they want to. If the government tells them to distribute the conventions when they wouldn&#039;t have done so otherwise, the government necessarily must force them to not distribute what they would have instead. Censorship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the Laffer Curve alleges that there is a revenue maximizing tax rate somewhere between 0% and 100%. So, if you don&#8217;t believe the Laffer Curve and you believe that &#8220;tax cuts decrease revenue,&#8221; then you must believe that the revenue maximizing rate of taxation is 100%.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t dispute that President Bush&#8217;s &#8220;economists&#8221; have said exactly what you say they have. My laughter was in response to the idea that you would attempt to use the views of Bush&#8217;s &#8220;economists&#8221; as evidence to support your argument.</p>
<p>And censorship. Media censorship happens when you tell the media they can&#8217;t distribute the news they want to. If the government tells them to distribute the conventions when they wouldn&#8217;t have done so otherwise, the government necessarily must force them to not distribute what they would have instead. Censorship.</p>
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		<title>By: sarabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76100</link>
		<dc:creator>sarabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76100</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If the laffer curve is â€œvoodooâ€, I assume you advocate a 100% tax rate, right?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m not sure if that&#039;s the funniest or the stupidest thing anybody has ever posted in our comments section.  Either this guy has no idea what the laffer curve is, or he thinks nobody here does.

&lt;blockquote&gt;â€œThat even the presidentâ€™s own economistsâ€¦â€[1,000 lines of hahahah omitted]&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s probably the best way to dismiss inconvenient facts that make the position you espoused look really, really silly.  If you&#039;re willing to put your money where your mouth is, I&#039;ll bet you $100 that I can back up my claim that President Bush&#039;s own economists have certified that tax cuts decrease revenue, and not increase it, that they do not stimulate the economy enough to even pay for themselves.  If you&#039;re not, then why don&#039;t you just crawl away and stop embarrassing yourself around here?

&lt;blockquote&gt;...since the post that my comment was eaten on advocates media censorship.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Advocates media censorship?  I&#039;d love to see you try to back that one up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If the laffer curve is â€œvoodooâ€, I assume you advocate a 100% tax rate, right?</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if that&#8217;s the funniest or the stupidest thing anybody has ever posted in our comments section.  Either this guy has no idea what the laffer curve is, or he thinks nobody here does.</p>
<blockquote><p>â€œThat even the presidentâ€™s own economistsâ€¦â€[1,000 lines of hahahah omitted]</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s probably the best way to dismiss inconvenient facts that make the position you espoused look really, really silly.  If you&#8217;re willing to put your money where your mouth is, I&#8217;ll bet you $100 that I can back up my claim that President Bush&#8217;s own economists have certified that tax cuts decrease revenue, and not increase it, that they do not stimulate the economy enough to even pay for themselves.  If you&#8217;re not, then why don&#8217;t you just crawl away and stop embarrassing yourself around here?</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;since the post that my comment was eaten on advocates media censorship.</p></blockquote>
<p>Advocates media censorship?  I&#8217;d love to see you try to back that one up.</p>
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		<title>By: effay</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76099</link>
		<dc:creator>effay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76099</guid>
		<description>If the laffer curve is &quot;voodoo&quot;, I assume you advocate a 100% tax rate, right?

&quot;That even the president&#039;s own economists...&quot;[1,000 lines of hahahah omitted]

I&#039;m familiar with your hungry spam filter here at 1115; I&#039;ve been its victim before. The censorship thing was intended as a sort of joke since the post that my comment was eaten on advocates media censorship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the laffer curve is &#8220;voodoo&#8221;, I assume you advocate a 100% tax rate, right?</p>
<p>&#8220;That even the president&#8217;s own economists&#8230;&#8221;[1,000 lines of hahahah omitted]</p>
<p>I&#8217;m familiar with your hungry spam filter here at 1115; I&#8217;ve been its victim before. The censorship thing was intended as a sort of joke since the post that my comment was eaten on advocates media censorship.</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/comment-page-1/#comment-76098</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1115.org/2008/07/09/whole-lot-of-lyin-goin-on/#comment-76098</guid>
		<description>those who believe in laffer curve voodoo are quite obviously being censored by the biggest spam filter ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>those who believe in laffer curve voodoo are quite obviously being censored by the biggest spam filter ever.</p>
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