The Source Of Clintonite Bitterness
by sarabeth at 6:00 am on June 12th, 2008 in 2008 Presidential, Barack Obama, HillaryI keep reading about the Clinton and Obama campaigns’ mutual bitterness. Take Charlie Rangel’s editorial in the New York Daily News on June 10:
There may be some residual bitterness among supporters on both sides, but there’s no question the wounds will heal, and the Democratic Party will enter this election season stronger than it has been in recent years.
[…]
It’s only natural that after such a grueling campaign - which brought forth so much personal emotion - some hard feelings would linger for a while.
Of course, Rangel is busy trying to paper over the differences between the two sides. It’s pretty self-evident that the hard feelings between these two campaigns go a lot deeper than what might be considered natural after a hard-fought campaign. There have been hard-fought campaigns before. What we have never seen before is the astonishing number of hard-core Clintonites who are seething with so much anger that they are determined not to support Obama.
On the day of the Kentucky primary, exit polls showed that 71% of Obama supporters would vote for Clinton if she were the nominee, but only 33% of Clinton supporters would vote for Obama.
As Clinton herself has pointed out to her supporters, this makes absolutely no sense. If you believe in what Clinton stands for, what Clinton’s campaign was all about, how can you possibly prefer McCain as the next president? And yet, large numbers of fervent Clinton supporters still proudly proclaim that they’d rather see McCain as president than vote for Obama, let alone work for him.
Maybe, as everyone predicts, some of this bitterness will subside between now and November. Maybe most of Hillary’s supporters will eventually vote their beliefs about how this country should be run and not their Obama-bitterness.
But what baffles me is this whole phenomenon of the raging bitterness of (some) Clintonites towards Obama.
Frankly, it would be much easier to understand such bitterness if it flowed the other way. Hillary Clinton deliberately ran a deeply divisive campaign. She pulled every dirty trick she could, from shamelessly exploiting and subtly fueling Obama-is-a-Muslim rumors to covert and overt racist appeals. Long after it was clear that mathematically she simply wasn’t going to be able to close the delegate gap, she did all she possibly could do to undermine the legitimacy of Obama’s looming victory.
But when I look at the campaign Obama ran, I’m just not able to identify any rational basis for The Bitter Clintonites’ bitterness towards the Obama camp. I really wish someone would explain to me exactly what these people are supposed to be so bitter about.
*** Update, 6:49 am ***
Here’s a positive sign, from the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal national poll:
Obama is also ahead among those who said they voted for Clinton in the Democratic primaries (61-19).
Could this bitterness I was addressing just be a lunatic fringe thing? Other than Kentucky voters messing with exit pollsters, that is.
Joseph Williams wrote:
I really think it is naive for you to truly believe there is no basis for ill feelings towards Obama from Clinton supporters. From early on in the campaign process, Sen. Hillary Clinton has had to combat the “celebrity and fad-like” appeal of electing a man of color (Of which I am one) to the shameful blatantly anti-Clinton journalism displayed around the nation. Truly it IS difficult for a Clinton supporter to accept that a man, Obama, who has very lilttle political experience AND has questionable personal associations inclusive of his church of 20 years would best her in an election where clearly she has a greater politicla background and much more experience.
It is hard for a Clinton supporter to stand behing a man that comes across as very arrogant and really for no reason. Exactly what has Barack Obam EVER done in his infant political career to warrnat being the Democratic candidte for president in such a crucial moment in our countries history. Not really much.
So as an African-American male Clinton supporter, I say Obama you can have your Oprah’s, J-Lo’s, turn coat Democrats. …one thing you will NOT have is my vote. Coem November I will stay at home this year, and if news continues as such will become irked enough to just vote for McCain.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 6:41 am ¶
matt wrote:
>I really wish someone would explain to me exactly what these people are supposed to be so bitter about.
that they really, really don’t like obama isn’t enough?
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 6:43 am ¶
sarabeth wrote:
That justifies bitterness towards Obama? You must be a certified Clintonite. (Or do I mean “certifiable”?)
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 6:59 am ¶
sarabeth wrote:
Not to my mind. It’s one thing to say I love Hillary and I really don’t like Obama one bit. It’s a whole other thing to say I’m so bitter towards Obama that I’d rather see this country go totally down the tubes for another 4 years than vote for the man who Hillary herself is telling me to vote for.
Who you vote for in a presidential election can’t be just about personalities. Principles and political agendas should enter into it somewhere, shouldn’t it?
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 7:03 am ¶
Sheri wrote:
Who really cares if the Clintons are bitter or not? It’s over!!!! Realize that and move on. Most people have chosen CHANGE over experience. The Clintons were in the WHITEHOUSE once and that’s enough and they have enough negative baggage.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 7:20 am ¶
William Joseph wrote:
To you SaraBeth,
Respectfully I say your comment of me being a Clintonite is offensive. If someone just HAD to label me, then please say Christian and leave it at that. Now to your comment.
My feelings towards Obama are not out of politcal affection towards the Clintons. Although, one should look at the prosperity this country enjoyed under the presidency of one William Clinton. No my dear, my dislike of Obama stem from his own doing. like:
1. His lack of political experience and unwillingness to display his agendas or plans so that I could study them and make an educated decision as to whether or not he is the man for my vote.
2. His arrogance to think I would believe anything he tells me. I don’t believe him on the Rev. Wright issue, Rezco, etc. and believe Obama to be a person that would even throw Michele Obama under the bus if it propleled his political career.
3. I am highly disenfrancheised with the mainstream media and how it “media mugged” Hillary in reportings and pretty much handled Obama with kids gloves until his imperfectiosn became too much to sugarcoat.
4. $4.00 gas on its way to $5.00 gal., unheard of Home foreclosures, unemployment soaring, a catastrphic war situation in Iraq….and all you offer me are words of inspiration Obama? Not going to cut it. I want to see your agenda/plans and how you are going to turn this country around post Bush. Respectfully, right now this country does’nt need Martin Luther King like inspiration, but what it needs is a sound accountant and military strategist. Neither of which you fit the Bill Obama.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 7:28 am ¶
William Joseph wrote:
To Sheri:
You are so right. People need to get over it. Obama won over Hillary. Who cares about if the Clintons or their supporters are bitter.
Well, guess we’ll just find out come general election when those same “bitter” Clinton supporters cast their ot for Sen. John McCain. I pretty much wager, you’ll be caring about them then.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 7:33 am ¶
rebecca wrote:
William Joseph wrote:
“Respectfully, right now this country does’nt need Martin Luther King like inspiration, but what it needs is a sound accountant and military strategist. Neither of which you fit the Bill Obama.”
I just wanted to say I agree with this sentence and would like to add the MLK’s dream was that a person be judged by the content of his character and not by the color of his skin. Seems we got that dream backwards.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 7:39 am ¶
rebecca wrote:
William Joseph wrote:
Respectfully, right now this country does’nt need Martin Luther King like inspiration, but what it needs is a sound accountant and military strategist. Neither of which you fit the Bill Obama.
I just wanted to say I agree with this sentence and would like to add the MLK’s dream was that a person be judged by the content of his character and not by the color of his skin. Seems we got that dream backwards.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 7:40 am ¶
Esther wrote:
I don’t know why Sen. Obama’s supporter are so worry about if Clinton’s suppoter will back him. The DC party leadership DECIDE the candidacy by superdelegates and period! They must be have a very good plan B for Clinton’s suppoters reaction, o no? Who’s care about us? Who’s care about 18 millions of Americans who vote for Hillary?
Let the Clinton’s life in peace, I think will be the healty way for DC party, Sen. Obama, team and suppoters and GOOD LUCK!
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 7:42 am ¶
sarabeth wrote:
Based on the overall incoherence of Joseph Williams’s comments (or William Joseph, or Billy Joe, or whatever he wants to call himself next time around), I stand by my revised opinion in the update to the post: maybe this bitterness I was addressing is just a lunatic fringe thing.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 7:42 am ¶
Cynthia wrote:
“Respectfully I say your comment of me being a Clintonite is offensive. If someone just HAD to label me, then please say Christian and leave it at that.”
As a Christian you should be among the first to NOT judge a man by your opinions and personal idea of how a campaign should be ran. We have been under leadership of persons with experience for the past 8 yrs. and can you truthfully say that you are better off? If you can, trust me when I say you are in the minority. Your decision to vote for McCain either by casting a vote or staying home are both the same. I pray that God will grant you the peace and understanding to accept that no candidate has or ever will lay out for you concrete plans because anything can and will change and there opens another door to say “I told you he/she were not going to do what they said”.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 7:46 am ¶
SD wrote:
Rebecca, get a life. We will always need a “MLK” like persona and heart. Joseph Williams, get a life. You are only one person, and as my momma used to say “One Monkey Don’t Stop No Show.” See this was the whole problem with the Clinton campaign, she was running it like a cult. Obama and Clinton are Democrats. You should be voting the issues, not the person. Just make sure if your cult leader asks you to drink a mysterious elixir, don’t do it!!!
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 9:05 am ¶
sarabeth wrote:
The stupid thing is that the cult leader has said please go work for and vote for Obama now. But too many Clintonites are still going: “I would die and slit my wrist before I’d vote for Obama.”
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 9:15 am ¶
matt wrote:
whoa. who’s the cult leader now?
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 10:03 am ¶
Olga MA wrote:
I am an ‘white tipycal woman’ who supported Clinton for the simple reason that she is better qualifyed than Obama. I denounced the democratic party because they handed over the nomination to Obama in spite of popular vote (2000 all over agin inside the dems.)
I do not support Obama becasuse I don’t trus him for a lot of reasons I’m not about to list - but they are valid.
I will vote for McCain because I trust him more than I trust Obama. McCain did work across party lines and I also belive his wife will make a much more dignified and proud of America first lady than Michelle
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 10:38 am ¶
dave2008elect wrote:
I really hate it when Clinton’s supporters threaten not to vote for Obama. Vote for whomever you wish or stay home. Damn it.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 11:06 am ¶
William Joseph wrote:
To all…..specifically the Obama supporters,
Guess I will start off fiercely with SD. What you said had to have been a poorly conceived “cute-sy.” As stated, I am African American and for you to state some assisine phrase like,” One Monkey Don’t Stop No Show” referring to me would warrant, to put nicely a thorough thrashing. Wanting to believe no racist intent was the ned goal as Obama is “supposedly” African American, I will just let that go.
SaraBeth….no my dear…believe me, your warped perceprion of incoherence is widespread known as “just having an opinion and sticking to it.” I think I numbered some real and distinct points about my lack of”being impressed” by Se. Obama. Now that he’s won the election for the DC and Hillary says for all to back him (purely to just be a Dem. Party person) does not mean I should feel any different towards him. Truth be told, In my eyes, Hillary was the best candidtae for the Dems followed by John Edwards. Neither is still on the board and now the only options are John McCain and Barack Hussein Obama. I find them both detestable and thus wil not “PIMP” myself out just so I can be a faithful party person. Both McCain and Barack are poor candidtaes in my eyes, thus a lose - lose.
Cynthia….are you joking? Being a Christian does not mean I should not have an opinion about the presidential candidates. I am not condemning Barack or McCain, saying they are evil. I am saying I do not care for either as President. As a tax-paying citizen…..I think I have the right to do so. Although the way SD is coming off, maybe I should be in the fields somewhere. Know wha’ mean’.
Lastly, one thing about you Obama supporters is so predictable. God forbid, Obama is scrutinized for his actions or inactions. Don’t you dare question why Barack stayed in a church that was and stil is being led by racist anti-American so called men of God. And as a war veteran myself, I denounce any and all that dare say “God D*mn America” or try to revive the race riots of the 60’s implying White America is infecting Black America with AIDS. Thats LUDICROUS!!! Barack worshipped in this church for 20 years, but had no inkling of these teachings?!? I say, he’s being disingenious and playing me and my fellow American voters for a sucker. Well his skin color may be the same as mine, but values are totally different. Thus in good faith I cannot vote for him.
I did not vote for Hillary because she told me too. I voted for Hillary because of her political record on numerous causes and specal aid for Women in America and around the world. Keeping true to that, Hillary says support Barack…but that is where her and I hit different paths.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 11:10 am ¶
William Joseph wrote:
Oprah, J-LO, Scarlett Joahnsen, Russell Simmons, Jodie Foster, Jamie Foxx, Tom Hanks, Will Smith, Robert DeNiro, Caroline Kennedy, Usher, Chris Rock, Forest Whitaker, Jennifer Aniston, Samuel L. Jackson, George Clooney, Ben Affleck…………….
whoop tee doo. All Obama Supporters. Shame though, I know more about who is supporting Obama than what he actually stands for. Searched his website, did’nt give much in ways of plans.
HILLARY CLINTON in 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 11:57 am ¶
sarabeth wrote:
I refer you, sir, to my previous treatise on the subject.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 12:03 pm ¶
sarabeth wrote:
Just for the record, William sweetie, who are “the Obama supporters” you are addressing?
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 12:08 pm ¶
Willaim Joseph wrote:
After 8 years of Bush, this is the best that both parties can come up with, McCain and Obama…..aaaiieeeee, my head hurts.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 12:15 pm ¶
William Joseph wrote:
Hi SaraBeth,
on a serious note….seems to me that anytime an unfavorable statement is made about Obama, his supporters get extremely defensive. This I see on TV and funny enough in my own family and friends circle as well. As stated, i am African American and funny enough am THE minority in my groupings when it comes to Obama. I have had numerous heated conversations about Obama with Obama supporters in my family and friends. One thing I always find funny is that I always challenge them to tell me why it is they like Obama so much. 98% of the time, family, friend, acquaintance, all say because he inspires me or he speaks so well. I laugh so hard at their statements. None can quote me his policy on important issues. Why saraBeth I wish I could quiz you about Obama’s policies. Would be interesting to say the least. Me? I have researched HRC up and down. i know where she stands on matters important to me and this country.
Anyhow…take care SaraBeth. The General election will be quite interesting. Don’t think it is going to go the way you would hope for though…..but guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 12:23 pm ¶
sarabeth wrote:
And just for the record, in case anyone else has also lost track, the post was not about whether some people may have real and distinct points about their lack of being impressed by Obama.
The post was about why some rabid Clintonites feel they have a rational basis for bitterness towards Obama
This was what William Joseph started to address back when he was Joseph Williams, and he started to explain the “basis for ill feelings towards Obama from Clinton supporters”.
The sum total of Joe Billy’s thesis seems to be:
— Obama’s “celebrity and fad-like” appeal was unfair competition for Hillary
— Journalists were way too soft on Obama
— He has no bloody experience, for crying out loud, and he had no business winning the nomination
— I really don’t like him very much
That’s supposed to be a coherent explanation for why rabid Clintonites are justified in feeling raging bitterness towards Obama.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 12:24 pm ¶
Willaim Joseph wrote:
Oh no she did’nt…oh no she did’nt…LOL.
SaraBeth, you know I can’t let your mumblings go unaddressed.
Seems only thing Rabid is faact you are allowed to promote this pseudo-intellect page.
And for the record…Clinton supporters begrudge the “Honorable” Barack because as stated, the media played a strong hand in portaying the elctions and negatively skewered in its’ reportings. As history has shown, mass pedia portrayals do influence humans in many areas on their perceptions of events. Hillary was always portrayed as being negative or petty, while Baracks shortcomings were never even investigated until the tide had overwhelmingly turned. Do your homework. Then when things about Barack started to surface, ie. Rev. Wright…it pretty much was much too late. Will be interesting to see what else comes out about Barack before the general election.
I think voters…people, in general just want fairness. I win, you win,…somebodys got to win. That is not the problem. The problem is let’s just have a level playing field. In this Democratic election, there was no level playing. HRC got ran out of town by the media, her own party, and barack. That begets ill-will. Maybe try a lil’ psch in your studies SaraBeth. Does wonders.
Lastly, Florida and Michigan…..half votes? C’mon….just a blatant forcing of Barack on all Dems by the party. Hillary backers see all this and feel just like the Bush elections are happening again. At some point, enough is enough.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 12:35 pm ¶
Renee wrote:
The first poster’s post really spoke very loudly to me.
I am a sixty year old woman. When I first heard about Obama, I was pretty excited that an African American man was running too. I listened carefully to his speeches and became rapidly disappointed. Obama spoke of “change” but never specified what the change would be. Obama spoke extensively about what we are tired of and what we didn’t want but he never said what he will do. We heard chants of, “Yes we can” and a great deal of excitement. This speech was repeated many, many times.
Then there was Hillary Clinton. She did better than he did in every debate. She was sharp, focused and on point. Some of the debates ended in a standing ovation for her. Hillary was obviously the more experienced and more capable candidate. I think Barak Obama has run a good campaign. He made fewer mistakes than Hillary did and he did not truly show himself or if he did, god help us all.
All my life, I have dreamed of a good woman president. We will now have a forty-fifth male president and no woman. Barak Obama has cost me a life long dream and I will never vote for him. It’s not as if the American public cannot be fooled. George Bush had two terms and as a result this country is in the worse shape I have ever seen it. I think Barak Obama has pulled the wool over people eyes. I think that racism was a huge no-no while there was extensive sexism. I do not feel that the democratic party supported Senator Clinton.
Yes, I am angry and yes I am bitter because when there was a real opportunity for change, we opted for very little change, that of having another man in office.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 8:25 pm ¶
Esther wrote:
Dear friends….lest wait to November 4th and see what happen. I as millios prefer experience than risk! Change to where? JUST WORDS!!!
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 9:04 pm ¶
Gorgegirl wrote:
William Joseph and Renee,
I completely agree with you. When SD said Hillary was running her campaign like a cult, it reminded me of a recent experience I had when I went to the Obama blog to check it out. I was welcomed to the “family”. So I was just wondering which campaign she was calling a ‘cult’.
William, I couldn’t have expressed my feelings as well as you did, but believe it or not, I just kept nodding my head.. I do have a question though. I really believe that the Obama campaign injected race into the campaign in South Carolina. Even common sense tells you that Hillary had a reasonable amount of the black voters support, so why would she do something like that? So, she had something Obama needed - support of the black community. His press secretary faxed a memo with all the “racially sensitive” words like “fairytale” that the press needed to review.
That did it for me. I had been inspired by his speeches but I kept looking for the substance and there was none. I wonder how many people voted in the primary prior to the Rev Wright tapes who would like a re-vote.
I really like and respect McCain, but again, his policies really bother me. I really don’t like Obama and a lot of his policies are just too far left for me, but most of all I don’t trust him.
Posted 13 Jun 2008 at 12:11 am ¶
Gorgegirl wrote:
There are a few other things that really bother me about Obama and his supporters. They are constantly making “dementia” remarks about McCain’s age. Here we have a hero - a man who spent almost 6 years in a POW cell for his country and they can’t even treat him with the respect and dignity he should have. If one doesn’t know what it was like being a POW in Vietnam, I would suggest they read Colonel Ben Purcell’s book, “Love and Duty”. The Colonel was on the same downed helicopter as a young 19-year old kid who lived next door to me growing up.
There is another thing I noticed about Barack Obama that really bothered me. When the press would raise a question about Rev Wright or something like that, his campaign would question things like they did Hillary’s Bosnia trip. What that did was take the sting off the Rev Wright story and the media would play the Bosnia tape instead of Rev Wright. He did it another time when something negative was in the media - I think it was about Rezko, and his campaign faxed a picture of him in an Foreign costume to the Drudge Report and tried to get the finger pointed to Hillary’s campaign as having done it.
William - what war? Thanks for your service and for everyone out there, Saturday is Flag Day.
Posted 13 Jun 2008 at 12:42 am ¶
Irma da Silva wrote:
I can’t understand why some Americans wanted another Clinton in the White House. Have they forgotten that terrorist groups blossomed during Mr. Clinton’s watch? There was enough intelligence about terrorist activities then but Mr. Clinton was too busy pleasuring his penis (and staining gowns) that he did not act in time to arrest the blooming of terrorism.
During Mr. Clinton’s presidency consumer activities (not his policies) created an atmosphere of abundance and greed for profits actually peaked! Americans’ greed for profit was such that outsourcing jobs to countries with very low labor costs (resulting in much higher profits) started during Mr. Clinton’s time. Not only did outsourcing lead to loss of millions of American jobs but it also fired the rapid growth of a world threat - China. Are we not against dictatorships of any kind?
During Mr. Clinton’s time, he hosted the Chinese in the White House and there was even talk of them sleeping inside. A few years later China was able to launch a manned orbiter! Are you reminded of the laptop that is the current talk of the town these days? One can just imagine what the Chinese actually did (or stole) when Mr. Clinton hosted them.
I won’t be surprised at all at the appearance down the road of a book declaring that Mr. Bush (who inherited the above problems) was actually better than Mr. Clinton!
So, Hillary what are you trying to clean up? Some of your husband’s semen that dripped from the satin gown of a fat penis-sucking woman?
Posted 13 Jun 2008 at 3:14 am ¶
Gorgegirl1 wrote:
#30 Irma da Silva wrote:
I can’t understand why some Americans wanted another Clinton in the White House. Have they forgotten that terrorist groups blossomed during Mr. Clinton’s watch?
*********
Your filthy, vicious post has no business on this blog. Take your hatred somewhere else.
Posted 14 Jun 2008 at 12:23 am ¶
Irma da Silva wrote:
To: Gorgegirl1:
What is filthy and vicious about the truth and whose hatred are you referring to - yours? Explain to people who lost their jobs due to outsourcing which started during Clinton’s watch.
Posted 15 Jun 2008 at 6:46 pm ¶
anne wrote:
Considering everything that is at stake, and now that the nomination process is over, it is time to ensure that a Democratic is elected. I voted for Barack Obama in the Washington, D.C. primary, and there were things I did not like about Hillary Clinton’s campaigning. But that is history now, and I think it is of the utmost importance to start the healing process.
A lot of my relatives, friends, and acquaintances were for Hillary Clinton–but I refused to argue with or otherwise antagonize any of them. There IS such a thing as disagreeing without being disagreeable.
There have been individual Republicans I have voted for in other than presidential elections because of what I felt they had to offer (Carole
Schwartz for mayor in 1994). But John McCain
is not–and never will be–one of them.
If anyone thinks that at least 4 more years of the same is okay, then go ahead and vote for McCain. As for the “inexperience” charge, there is very little that prepares anyone for the magnitude of being a President.
All presidents pick people they consider the best choice (for actual competence or shared ideology in George W. Bush’s case) for different posts.
There is a lot of delegation that takes place.
And let’s not forget that the “inexperienced” label was used against John F. Kennedy.
If Clinton had become the nominee instead of Obama, I would have voted for her because of what is at stake. Does anyone seriously believe that John McCain, who voted with Bush at least 95% of the time, would be a good choice after 7
years of economic disarray?
Posted 28 Jun 2008 at 6:50 am ¶