no, but what does that matter. lots of other places that weren’t hotspots before are now. that’s why it’s called whack-a-mole.

Which is actually a direct result of them being routed from there hosts. They are being pushed out by Sunnis and Iraqi Army and US forces. They are running out of friends. They brutalized their Sunni-Iraqi hosts and now they are paying for it. On the other front you have the Mahdi Army. Which the Maliki Government as actually engaged in a shooting war now with Al Sadr’s group just his week.

have you laid to rest the preposterous claim (in #19) that “Al Qaida … is the main problem, today” in Iraq?

Military problem, yes or perhaps on equal footing with Iranian backed Mahdi Army, but central to eventual success is the Iraqi government has to step it up.

If anything comes out of the calls for the US to leave (IMO), it may be to light a fire under the Iraqi government. Maliki might have realized that unless he wants Iraq to be annexed into Iran, he must oppose Al Sadr, who has fled to Iran.

that’s what I jumped in to dispute, and all you’ve been talking about since then is some ex-Sunnis allying themselves with us against AQI.

And Why are you so down on Pat Dollard? He calls it like it is

wouldn’t you say the same about yourself? what was his mission statement again? the one that sac pointed out?

Yes, absurd that anything could possibly go right so let’s just ignore it.

again, you’re just willfully missing the point, which is why i don’t take you seriously. lots of things go right. some patrols even make it back without getting shot to shit. some iraqis can temporarily set aside their differences. but that’s not where the weight of the evidence is, even in the eyes of the partisan government agencies whose job it is to track these things.

it was really sunny right after katrina. didn’t stop people from drowning or houses from floating away.

are you actually denying that Al Anbar, home of Fallujah and Ramadi and other nasty areas of the past have not been some of our worst encounters with Sunni insurgents?

no, but what does that matter. lots of other places that weren’t hotspots before are now. that’s why it’s called whack-a-mole.

Its not made any progress and it needs to

maliki’s govt is on the verge of total failure. nothing has worked so far, nor is there anything on the political front that is even the least bit encouraging. like this:

The eight “unsatisfactory” categories concern the central issues of Iraqi politics—the disputes that must be resolved if Iraq is to be a viable state and if the U.S. mission is to have the slightest chance of success.
Here are the benchmarks at which, even the White House acknowledges, the Iraqi government has not made satisfactory progress:
Legislation on de-Baathification reform
Legislation to ensure equitable distribution of oil revenue without regard to sect or ethnicity
Setting up provincial elections
Establishing a strong militia-disarmament program
Allowing Iraqi commanders to pursue militias without political interference
Ensuring that the Iraqi army and police enforce the law evenhandedly
Increasing the number of Iraqi security forces capable of operating independently (here, the number has actually gone down)
Ensuring that Iraq’s political authorities are not undermining or making false accusations against members of Iraqi security forces

The status of former Baathists, distribution of oil revenue, local elections, disarming militias, sectarianism within the police, the legitimacy of the national army—these are the main issues grinding the parliament to a standstill, aggravating ethnic conflict, and forcing millions of Iraqis to flee the country. These are the issues that the Iraqi political leaders are supposed to be resolving while American troops fight and die to make Baghdad secure.
Yet the White House is admitting that the Iraqis have made no real progress on any of these fronts.

and that’s what they’re admitting.

So this is major and important

no. it might be. but it hasn’t risen to anything like the level it would need to to be replicable in other areas, or on a scale that would render a whole provence pacified. and until then, you have a ray of sunshine on a submerged country. nothing more.

you freely admit that you don’t know what’s in the mainstream news because you only read dullard and other milbloggers

I didn’t say that, over the 4th weekend, yes, I hadn’t watched any MSM when you asked me but I have since. And Why are you so down on Pat Dollard? He calls it like it is, I tripple dog dare you to refute his articles.

the sheer volume of bad news makes this absurd. “we painted schools!” “some sunni’s laid down his AK!”

Yes, absurd that anything could possibly go right so let’s just ignore it.

and this is different than all of your other arguments? keep thinking you have a bone there rover.

I presented evidence, it is in print, no it is not “comprehensive” in that ALL Sunnis have turned but are you actually denying that Al Anbar, home of Fallujah and Ramadi and other nasty areas of the past have not been some of our worst encounters with Sunni insurgents?

no, it isn’t. far more SUNNI’S live in baghdad than in all of anbar. by far.
[...]
and wyoming is bigger than pennsylvania. so what? land doesn’t kill people, people do.

Alright, let me clarify what I mean, it is the largest Sunni province which has historically been the host of most of the major Sunni Insurgent activity of the war to date. Fallujah, Ramadi, ring a bell? If not those are two cities are where our US troops have had historically very significant continuous battles with insurgents.

what does all, not some, of the evidence say on this point?

Its not made any progress and it needs to and that is a big part of the problem but also securing Iraq and routing Al Qaida and the Mahdi Militia is also a major military problem which is what the “Surge” is attempting to address now.

But the Sunni Awakening as they call it is a piece of the puzzle. So this is major and important and can lead to an actual success, which of course is the more desirable outcome in my opinion.

No I am saying that the vast majority of Sunni insurgents operated out of the Al Anbar province which is quite large, include areas that were once very nasty places for US forces, the fact thatthe largest Sunni problem area has turned has to be significant.

large in terms of area, not population. so who cares?

Why so huffy?

like i said, we’ve lost patience with you. it’s exhausting to debate the intellectual dishonesty day after day. i mean come on, you freely admit that you don’t know what’s in the mainstream news because you only read dullard and other milbloggers because they “give the good news with the bad.” i’m over it. the sheer volume of bad news makes this absurd. “we painted schools!” “some sunni’s laid down his AK!”

I am right on this (about Sunnis turning on Al Qaida) and it is a fact and I will not back down on that point, threats or no threats.

and this is different than all of your other arguments? keep thinking you have a bone there rover.

We’ll see if that happens…but for now, I am using an often used source to back up arguments, why then is now not authoritative for you in this matter?

it’s not authoritative because it’s far from comprehensive. there’s nothing there about this being a nationwide trend. and it’s hypocritical of you to interrupt your mission of ignoring the mainstream press for one article and then throwing periods around because you think they proved you right. for once.

Anbar is the largest province in Iraq

and wyoming is bigger than pennsylvania. so what? land doesn’t kill people, people do.

Yes except that Al Anbar is the largest Sunni province containing cities of some of the worst insurgent fights with US forces.

no, it isn’t. far more SUNNI’S live in baghdad than in all of anbar. by far.

You are correct and this is where the political plans need to work.

and what does all, not some, of the evidence say on this point?

are you saying that it is your position that the sunni insurgency outside of AQ does not exist because they have, en masse, changed sides?

[...]

do the fucking math. these stories were around before hayden’s assessment, and it didn’t change the facts on the ground. why should it now?

your little AP story is far from comprehensive, and speaks of one provence. did you miss that other parts of iraq are now worse than anbar was?

No I am saying that the vast majority of Sunni insurgents operated out of the Al Anbar province which is quite large, include areas that were once very nasty places for US forces, the fact thatthe largest Sunni problem area has turned has to be significant.

This AP story is not the only report on this and I can’t find any reports like this before Hayden’s remarks and are you denying that Sunnis in Al Anbar have turned against Al Qaida? And I also referenced not too long ago about Sunnis inside Bahgdad that were helping US forces in pointing out Al Qaida during the opening of ArrowheadRipper.

say the word period again asshole

Why so huffy? I am right on this (about Sunnis turning on Al Qaida) and it is a fact and I will not back down on that point, threats or no threats.

it’s good to know that the AP is now taken as authoritative fact over even government reports. i’ll be bookmarking this comment for shoving it down your throat later. unfortunately you’ll move on and come up with some reason why the AP went from fact. period. to totally without merit.

that will be awesome.

We’ll see if that happens…but for now, I am using an often used source to back up arguments, why then is now not authoritative for you in this matter?

what is “a fact, period?” that al Qaeda is the number one threat?

No. The fact is that Sunnis ex-insiurgents in the troubled Al Anbar province, Anbar is the largest province in Iraq, sharing a border with Syria, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia, contains such infamous cities such as Fallujah and Ramadi, where Sunni insurgents where most problematic.

Can you get it into your head that some sunnis turning against al Qaeda doesn’t prove anything other than some sunnis are now fighting al Qaeda?

Yes except that Al Anbar is the largest Sunni province containing cities of some of the worst insurgent fights with US forces.

Can you get it into your head that this certainly does not mean that all Sunni insurgents are now friends rather than foes?

I understand that not all Sunnis have turned but it is evident that a large problem area of Sunnis have turned and that is significant to require a reassessment of threats.

Sunnis are still fighting Shia, so sectarian strife remains on the list as one of the main sources of violence.

You are correct and this is where the political plans need to work.

And in fact there are still some Sunni insurgents fighting us. In other words, some is not the same as all.

I agree, not all Sunnis are likely to have turned but Al Anbar is the largest Sunni stronghold and the source of many of the Sunni insurgents in the past which now have turned to work with coalition forces and pledged to cooperate with the government. All good news.

that’s a 3-point peace plan.

i understand they give out nobel prizes for this shit.

I’ll share mine with Matt, and anyone other than Sac and JimC who faithfully comments on our posts for the next three months

to be Al Qaida you only need to sympathize with or align yourself with the ideology

JimC logic as applied to immigration policy:
To be American you only have to want to be American. Presto: no more illegal immigrants.

Powerful medicine, this. Makes our most intractable political-social problems vanish in a few keystrokes.

JimC shouldn’t just be running the CIA, he should be running the country. He should be President-for-Life.

Of course, to be President-for-Life, you only have to want to be President-for-Life. So that position may already be taken.