Refereeing Clinton Versus Obama

by sarabeth at 6:00 am on February 22nd, 2007 in 2008 Presidential, Democrats, Obama Uber Alles

Yesterday, this almost managed to distract MSNBC and Headline News from the Trial Hearing of the Century, so it must be a huge story. (I think FDL is making a huge mistake by not live-blogging this hearing, by the way.)

The presidential campaigns of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton went a few rounds.

Probably the only thing both sides — and the supporters of both sides — agree on is that the opening bell was some extremely ill-chosen remarks by entertainment mogul David Geffen. (Apparently, “entertainment mogul” is part of his legal name, and the media signed a consent decree sometime in the last century agreeing that the first mention of his name in any media piece has to include this prefix. But this is a hallowed tradition, and should not cause any raised eyebrows. In the blues world, for example, it has always been obligatory to refer to Robert Johnson as “the late great Robert Johnson”.) In these remarks, he tarred and feathered both Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, calling them consummate liars among many other mean-spirited comments which we may as well not dignify by repeating them here. After all, both sides are willing to stipulate that he spewed some serious bilge. If you do want to read said bilge, you better go here.

Round one was clearly won by the Clinton campaign, which launched an immediate counter-attack. Clinton spokesperson Howard Wolfson:

While Senator Obama was denouncing slash and burn politics yesterday, his campaign’s finance chair was viciously and personally attacking Senator Clinton and her husband.

If Senator Obama is indeed sincere about his repeated claims to change the tone of our politics, he should immediately denounce these remarks, remove Mr. Geffen from his campaign and return his money.

While Democrats should engage in a vigorous debate on the issues, there is no place in our party or our politics for the kind of personal insults made by Senator Obama’s principal fundraiser.

A bit over-the-top in terms of the suggested remedies, but if Shakespeare was a political blogger today (instead of his sister), he would surely have gone: “A hit, a very palpable hit.”

Campaign finance chairs simply have no business making vicious personal attacks on other candidates and/or their spouses. I started writing this post in my head. And, boy, was I going to give it to the Obama campaign if they didn’t swiftly (oops; poor choice of words right there) denounce Geffen’s remarks.

Round two was equally clearly lost by the Obama campaign. Their response to the round one onslaught came from the mouth of communications director Robert Gibbs (they not only lost the round, they also lost face; the response has to come from someone of exactly equal rank):

We aren’t going to get in the middle of a disagreement between the Clintons and someone who was once one of their biggest supporters. It is ironic that the Clintons had no problem with David Geffen when he was raising them $18 million and sleeping at their invitation in the Lincoln bedroom. It is also ironic that Senator Clinton lavished praise on Monday and is fully willing to accept today the support of South Carolina State Sen. Robert Ford, who said if Barack Obama were to win the nomination, he would drag down the rest of the Democratic Party because he’s black.

Come off it, guys. You’re running the high and noble campaign, and you not only refuse to criticize Geffen for his outrageous remarks (outrageous, you understand, for a campaign finance chair) but you respond to the Clinton campaign’s entirely justified complaint by taunting them? And hitting back with an unrelated broadside?

I started to sharpen my knives. Critics of Obama were no doubt jumping up and down, seized by a delicious mixture of rage and glee (though I was not personally present to witness this behavior, so this should not be construed as a first person report).

The Clinton campaign, to its eternal shame, decided to hit the Obama campaign while it was down. Wolfson’s response to Gibbs:

By refusing to disavow the personal attacks from his biggest fundraiser against Senator Clinton and President Clinton, Senator Obama has called into serious question whether he really believes his own rhetoric. How can Senator Obama denounce the politics of slash & burn yesterday while his own campaign is espousing the politics of trash today?

When one of Senator Clinton’s supporters made an inappropriate statement, her campaign disavowed it immediately and the supporter apologized for his words. Why won’t Senator Obama do the same?

Just as I was getting ready to call an “ungentlemanly behavior” foul, it turned out that political prizefights are conducted under very different rules from other spectator sports. Anyone can call for a non-instant replay at any time, including dark horses and outsiders. So Arianna Huffington, who knows all the rules, did. She called for a replay of round 1:

The thing is, Geffen is not Obama’s “finance chair” nor his “principal fundraiser” as Wolfson also claims. Indeed, as Geffen told me this morning: “I have no official role in the campaign. None whatsoever.” Which makes it kind of hard for Obama to “remove” him.

Geffen was merely one of three co-hosts of a single event — an event that is now over. Obama’s actual campaign finance chair is Penny Pritzker of Chicago.

She did, however, go on to forfeit any claim for respect by perpetrating a really egregious example of partisan hackery on behalf of the Obama campaign:

In the Dowd interview, Geffen said of the Clintons: “Everybody in politics lies, but they do it with such ease, it’s troubling.”

And this morning’s dust-up proves him right.

Hey, lady! If you don’t know the difference between a totally stupid honest mistake and a lie, you really should stop appearing in public in print. “This morning’s dust-up proves him right” is plain stupid. (See, I know the difference between a stupidity and a lie.) And if a lie by a Clinton campaign spokesman is the same as a lie by the Clintons, then surely a stupidity by such an ardent Obama supporter is a stupidity by the great and glorious Obama himself?

At this stage, of course, this political prizefight has turned into a WWF (or whatever they’re calling it these days) brawl, since Arianna is right there in the ring with the two campaigns. (I do apologize for whatever painful images that conjures up in your mind.)

Now the funny thing about the political prizefight non-instant replay rule is that after the replay, referees are required to go back and re-score the fight.

I had to take round 1 away from the Clinton campaign. To get the basic facts wrong like that, unforgivable.

That did, of course, mean I had to take round 2 away from them too. Once the premise laid down by the Clinton campaign was false, the inadequacies of the Obama response became moot. But there’s no way I could justify awarding the round to Obama. These guys didn’t realize on their own that Geffen was not the campaign’s finance chair? So I had to give the round right back to Clinton.

By this time, round three had swallowed its own tail, so it couldn’t be re-scored. (Of course, it hadn’t been scored in the first place; maybe it was just very shy.)

But in the interests of topicality, I’ll go ahead and present a closing argument, as a bonus.

Given that Geffen has no official connection to the Obama campaign, there is of course no question of firing him from his campaign post. Returning his money was never a serious demand anyway, it was clearly just tossed in for rhetorical effect. Which leaves one proposition on the table—that the Obama campaign should disavow Geffen’s remarks (I have taken the liberty of toning down the rhetoric from denounce to disavow).

It strikes me that the sensible thing for the Obama campaign to have done was to put out a mild little statement to the effect that of course Geffen’s remarks were a little extreme but he is a private individual, and even in the time of Bush he’s allowed to say whatever he wants.

To have Senator Obama respond personally was a mistake, I think. And to have him say I can’t be expected to apologize for someone else’s statement was not only stupid, in my view, but stupidly Bushian. He was never asked to apologize for what Geffen said. Only to disavow it. And he chose not to. Which was not the high and noble response. But to stand there and say that he will not do what no one has called upon him to do — a play that comes straight from the Bush playbook — only makes it worse.

I think if you talk the talk, people are going to fault you when you don’t walk the walk. I hereby do.

Trackbacks & Pings

  1. University Update on 22 Feb 2007 at 11:28 am

    Refereeing Clinton Versus Obama - by: sarabeth…

Comments

  1. Anderson Cooper wrote:

    Are you seriously assuming that the Clintonmacht didn’t know that Geffen had no official role in the Obama campaign? This was very clearly Clinton saying Obama’s campaign is being run by gay Hollywood types, and that’s how seriously you all should consider him. This was no honest mistake.

    Huffington was dead on. Hillary felt like a scorned wife that Geffen and company — a group that supported Bill strongly — would even consider backing Obama. It’s the story of her entire run. She acts as though she’s owed the nomination, and any candidate who dares challenge that assumption is going to get smacked.

  2. matt wrote:

    She acts as though she’s owed the nomination

    be that as it may, official role or no, you take the high road or you don’t. driving on it while pulling a trailer on the low road isn’t going to work.

    and since i haven’t heard obama say he doesn’t think bill or hillary are pathological liars, it sems he’s not really for a “new kind of politics” after all. this is a perfect illustration of what i was talking about last week.

  3. Anderson Cooper wrote:

    So if he doesn’t come out and say he disagrees with something said by David Geffen — someone who is not on his campaign staff — he is a hypocrite? So a candidate is now responsible for comments made by every one of his donors?

    By that logic, isn’t Bill Clinton even more responsible for what Geffen said about Hillary, since over the years Geffen’s given far more to him than he has to Obama?

    And I’ll bet we could find some Kerry/Edwards donations in Geffen’s past. Maybe your golden boy has some dirt on his hands, too.

  4. matt wrote:

    So a candidate is now responsible for comments made by every one of his donors?

    i’d restrict it to every one of the people who raise multi-millions for him, and clearly operate as if they have at least a tacit approval to speak in some kind of campaign capacity.

    By that logic, isn’t Bill Clinton even more responsible for what Geffen said about Hillary, since over the years Geffen’s given far more to him than he has to Obama?

    is this seriously an argument you are trying to make or even compare? if so, i don’t know what to say.

    And I’ll bet we could find some Kerry/Edwards donations in Geffen’s past. Maybe your golden boy has some dirt on his hands, too.

    this is absurd. it’s nothing to do with who he backed in the past. it’s who he’s backing and raising money for now. he wasn’t commenting on a past election, but this one. where he has a clear dog in the fight against another dog.

    wtf does edwards have to do with any of this, other than it’s hard to back obama without bashing everyone else because hope and faith don’t win arguments. is that why i can’t mention my distaste for obama without having someone bash edwards here? i don’t get it.

  5. DavidCreighton wrote:

    Matt:

    be that as it may, official role or no, you take the high road or you don’t.

    No high road to take. David Geffen is a grown man and is responsible for his own words. Obama is not his mother.

    You haven’t repudiated David Geffen’s words. I guess that means you think the Clintons are liars too.

    and since I haven’t heard obama say he doesn ‘t think bill or hillary are pathological liars, it sems he’s not really for a “new kind of politics”

    Obama has certainly shown he is ready for a different kind of politics; He doesn’t lie about his opponents.

    The very point of Obama’s “different kind of politics” is to tell the truth. Your thesis only holds water if the Clintons aren’t liars. If the Clintons ARE liars, then Obama is not doing anything wrong by calling them out on it, or by failing to repudiate someone who does call them out on it. So…Is Hillary Clinton a liar? Is Bill Clinton a liar?

    That depends on what the definition of “is” is.

    i’d restrict it to every one of the people who raise multi-millions for him, and clearly operate as if they have at least a tacit approval to speak in some kind of campaign capacity

    Any American with the right to vote has some “tacit” approval to speak in a campaign capacity.This is how a Democracy with free speech works: Any American has the right to speak about any politician or and campaign in any way they choose.

    wtf does edwards have to do with any of this, other than it’s hard to back obama without bashing everyone else because hope and faith don’t win arguments.

    Andersen Cooper is perfectly justified in bringing up Edwards because all the criticisms you have of Obama are maginified in Edwards. You say Obama is all rhetoric? Edwards can barely string sentences together. Obama has no substance? Edwards didn’t even show up to Senate votes most of the time and still repeats his “Two Americas” rhetoric from two years ago. So Andersen Coooper sees, as have I, how hypocritical your stance on Obama really is.

  6. sarabeth wrote:

    what is increasingly becoming clear from the tone of comments (on this and other posts) is this: whether or not obama is ready for a different kind of politics, he seems to inspire a lot of people who aren’t.

    i would like to really get into these discussions and mix it up, but unfortunately i have too many demands on my time right now. so,reluctantly, i’m largely going to stay out of them.

  7. DavidCreighton wrote:

    Sarabeth:

    Whatever.

  8. matt wrote:

    You haven’t repudiated David Geffen’s words. I guess that means you think the Clintons are liars too.

    obviously the ability to make simple analogies is beyond you.

    Obama has certainly shown he is ready for a different kind of politics; He doesn’t lie about his opponents.

    maybe, although he lies about himself.

    The very point of Obama’s “different kind of politics” is to tell the truth

    i thought it was to be everybody’s friend, and average your deeply held beliefs with the psychopaths on the other side in order to perpetuate bipartisanship.

    Your thesis only holds water if the Clintons aren’t liars. If the Clintons ARE liars, then Obama is not doing anything wrong by calling them out on it, or by failing to repudiate someone who does call them out on it.

    wow. so not only is david geffen not speaking for obama, if he were, he’d be right, and obama can choose between tacitly approving or non-denial denying? this dude is magic. for his next trick, he’ll walk on water.

    So…Is Hillary Clinton a liar? Is Bill Clinton a liar?

    is bill clinton running? what has hillary clinton lied about?

    This is how a Democracy with free speech works: Any American has the right to speak about any politician or and campaign in any way they choose.

    thanks for the civics lesson. people are of course free to say whatever they want, not matter how abhorrent. they’re even free to lie. but if you think their motivation to say things isn’t subject to scrutiny, then you have wandered into the wrong place.

    Andersen Cooper is perfectly justified…

    he brought up edwards with respect to campaign donations from 3 years ago. the only thing less relevant is you bringing up missed votes. try to stay on topic.

    and for the record, mr cooper was talking directly out of his ass about geffen giving money to edwards. a simple search (here, here, here, here, here, here, and here) shows that not to be the case. geffen gave money to kerry in the primary, but not the general. geffen has never given money to edwards in any capacity in any election. please step your game up.

  9. DavidCreighton wrote:

    Matt:

    Wow, dude. You almost had me there. You had that part about Obama lying about himself and I checked it out. I shouldn’t have worried though: Your proof came from some guy’s blog, not from a real, vetted source.

    So your proof was an opinion peace, and not only that, but it was an opinion peace whose conclusions did not make any sense. It questions how Obama could have told his aides to stay above the fray before the spat. Well…If Obama knew that Clinton was going to try to bring him down to her level, which was not at all unlikely, then it makes sense that Obama would have ordered his aides to stay above the fray–any fray that was likely to arise.

    And Matt, take your own advice. The opinion peace you quoted is just that–an opinion peace–filled with speculation and hearsay.

    wow. so not only is david geffen not speaking for obama, if he were, he’d be right, and obama can choose between tacitly approving or non-denial denying? this dude is magic. for his next trick, he’ll walk on water.

    Your just foaming at the mouth here. Read what I wrote again. It’s obvious that your reading comprehension is more than a little off.

    Anytime Anyplace, Matt. Anytime Anyplace. When you are prepared to issue real criticisms against Obama, I’ll be happy to debate with you. But if you continue in this vein of speculation, hearsay and just plain fantasy, don’t be surprised if you find yourself looking foolish.

  10. sarabeth wrote:

    So your proof was an opinion peace, and not only that, but it was an opinion peace whose conclusions did not make any sense.

    Piece be upon you, brother!

    (Why do we always get the ones who can’t spell?)

  11. sac wrote:

    I suppose this infighting early in a presidential campaign is unavoidable, particularly because it’s the Democrats. I’m sure the Republicans are giddy about it. Be that as it may, Obama is handling it perfectly by not even getting involved, not offering up a soundbite that could be twisted by any number of sources, depending on their goals. Basically, he’s not commenting on a quote given by someone he didn’t hire. Hillary is going to kick and scream her way out of the nomination.

  12. sac wrote:

    Piece be upon you, brother!

    (Why do we always get the ones who can’t spell?)

    Really?

  13. sarabeth wrote:

    Obama is handling it perfectly by not even getting involved

    Really?

    He responded personally to the statements coming from the Clinton campaign. That’s a funny way of not even getting involved.

  14. matt wrote:

    Your just foaming at the mouth here…It’s obvious that your reading comprehension is more than a little off.

    um, what?

    When you are prepared to issue real criticisms against Obama, I’ll be happy to debate with you.

    i’m looking forward to more obama supporters to debate. really. this whole thing takes his faith mantra to undiscovered levels.

  15. sac wrote:

    “Democrats want to fall in love, Republicans want to fall in line.”

    My new favorite quote, attributed to Bill Clinton. I only heard it this weekend. I think it applies to the Obama frenzy.

  16. matt wrote:

    Obama is handling it perfectly by not even getting involved

    and the Economist is librul, etc etc. for fuck’s sake. stop making shit up. it’s annoying.

  17. sac wrote:

    All I could find in a few minutes on Google news is that Obama said he wasn’t responsible for what someone not on his payroll says. Has he said more on the matter? I’m asking seriously. If not, then I think that qualifies as “not even getting involved.”

    He probably should have said something like “while I have no control over what private citizens say, I don’t support that kind of name-calling.” Still, I think what he did wasn’t too bad either.

  18. matt wrote:

    obviously any comment at all from the candidate himself is by definition, getting involved. but then, you don’t define words the way normal people do.

  19. sac wrote:

    Since he couldn’t really say “no comment” without coming off really badly, he did the next least involved thing.

  20. matt wrote:

    it was still his choice to actually not get involved. i’m not sure how this is hard for you to comprehend. sometimes people face no-win situations. if that’s what obama was in, he still chose to get involved. whether this was right or wrong is, i guess, debatable. that he got involved simply isn’t.

  21. sac wrote:

    OK. But I still think he handled it well.

  22. DanielCreighton wrote:

    On Edwards:

    2:10 am Sen. Edwards co-sponsored the IWR (hillary didn’t)and voted Nay on the Levin Resolution, which was a better resolution (Get a vote from the U.N. and come back to Congress for 2nd vote). It took 3 years and the polls turning for Sen. Edwards to apologize for his vote. Why did it take so long for him to see the err in his ways?

    In his 6 years as a senator, Sen. Edwards championed not one legislation on Poverty (other than minimum wage like most Democrats). Sen. Edwards became a populist once the 2 America speech took off, and he then made poverty his cause because it helped him get noticed, not the other way around.

    Sen. Edwards recently said that Iran should never be allowed to get Nukes ever, while he was talking to Aipac and praised Sharom more than was required. When bloggers heard of this and were disgusted, Sen. Edwards made a 180 turn and stated that we might have to live with a nuclear Iran and quickly borrowed other politicians’ Iran stances. Which is it Sen. Edwards?

    Sen. Edwards will tell whatever audience he is talking to whatever they want to hear. This must come from his training as an attorney (for one so “into” poverty, he never took any Pro Bono Cases , which is not the same as a contigency cases). That’s why he can bring a tear to the eye when telling his stories; but it doesn’t make it sincere.

    Out of all of the candidates, I fear Sen. Edwards the most, because I don’t really know what he truly believes, only what he’s willing to say to get elected. After all, he’s been running for President as long as we have been fighting the Iraq War.

    I don’t believe that John Edwards has the sound judgement to be an effective President, and making a giant mistake and giving a super late apology is not a good enough reason to give Sen. Edwards a job promotion. If he was really sorry and sincere about it all, Sen. Edwards would have had the humility not to run for President, twice.

    — Posted by J. Ruesz

    Acquired from the NYT

  23. matt wrote:

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  24. DavidCreighton wrote:

    Yeah, that previous message was a bit mean. Shouldn’t have been so hard on John Edwards. I apologize.

  25. matt wrote:

    who cares about mean? let’s shoot for accurate.

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