One Or the Other

Posted by on . 31 comments.

Some people don’t enjoy it when the administration is accused of lying. Standards sure do change.

Here’s what I want to know: If they didn’t lie to get us into the Iraq war (WMDs, ties to terrorism), how are they not fantastically inept for not being about to find said WMDs/ties to terrorism? Obviously the pat answer has become “Iraq is a big country, and the borders are porous.” Since everything after an invasion is covered by Colin Powell‘s “You broke it, you bought it” rule (not to mention Omar Little‘s “All in the game, yo” credo”) don’t they need to be held accountable?

So which is it? Did they lie or did they totally fuck up the hunt? Sorry, there’s no third choice.

Comments

  1. Comandante Agi says:
    May 9, 2006 at 7:46 am

    Duh, Saddam moved the WMD to Syria right before the invasion. It’s time to unleash Operation Rest of the Brown Ones!

  2. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 9:16 am

    Yes there is a third possiiblity, they were there but were moved, this is valid and Saddam had the time and the resources to do it…

    The previous commenter mocks this possibility because it would devastate the whole “we hate GW because he’s a liar” movement…

  3. matt says:
    May 9, 2006 at 9:37 am

    they were there but were moved

    that was part of my question. either you can’t read, or are doing the jimc duck. if you think they were moved, doesn’t the administration have to take the blame for not stopping their movement. after all, they are supposedly weapons that threaten our very way of life…

  4. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 9:53 am

    “that was part of my question. either you can’t read, or are doing the jimc duck. if you think they were moved, doesn’t the administration have to take the blame for not stopping their movement. after all, they are supposedly weapons that threaten our very way of life…
    ”

    I get it you now, you’re asking if we knew they were moving them why didn’t we destroy them. Well, I guess the simple answer is that we aren’t 100% sure that they moved them hence the “possibility” of my answer. Even now we can suspect that’s what happened but we lack the intel to know 100% sure…

    So assuming our President didn’t conjure up this grand deception, it points to the need of beefing up our intelligence gathering capabilities, don’t you think?

  5. matt says:
    May 9, 2006 at 10:01 am

    just admit that they fucked up. when you take the drastic action of going to war, you had better get it much more right than wrong. they got nothing right, and a ton wrong.

    and it’s not just us deranged liberals saying that.

  6. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 10:14 am

    I have admitted there were mistakes and plenty of them. Does this mean they lied, nop, does this mean they’re unfit, no, it means that we have a tough time moving forward and we’d better start learning how to work together as a country and finish our tasks or it will be unimaginably worse if we *fail* in IRaq (as in pull out and let it fall into total chaos). Can this still happen, yes. Can we still pull it out, yes. Will it be tough? yes….

  7. Matthew Tobey says:
    May 9, 2006 at 11:40 am

    does this mean they’re unfit, no

    Why not? What more could’ve gone wrong?

  8. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 11:56 am

    Not done anything and left Saddam in power for 8 more years…wait that was done already…

    Beginning of the translation of page 6 from document BIAP 2003-000654

    In the Name of God the Merciful The Compassionate

    Top Secret

    The Command of Ali Bin Abi Taleb Air Force Base

    No 3/6/104

    Date 11 March 2001

    To all the Units

    Subject: Volunteer for Suicide Mission

    The top secret letter 2205 of the Military Branch of Al Qadisya on 4/3/2001 announced by the top secret letter 246 from the Command of the military sector of Zi Kar on 8/3/2001 announced to us by the top secret letter 154 from the Command of Ali Military Division on 10/3/2001 we ask to provide that Division with the names of those who desire to volunteer for Suicide Mission to liberate Palestine and to strike American Interests and according what is shown below to please review and inform us.

    Air Brigadier General

    Abdel Magid Hammot Ali

    Commander of Ali Bin Abi Taleb Air Force Base

    Air Colonel

    Mohamad Majed Mohamadi.

    End of translation of page 6

    Boy these recovered documents keep producing compeling evidence of Saddaam’s threat…

    http://iraqdocs.blogspot.com/

  9. Jim-anti-C says:
    May 9, 2006 at 12:25 pm

    Holy Mother of the Prophet of the One True God! JimC’s got the fucking smoking gun!!

    So what happened next, JimC, do tell? They got volunteers, huh? They liberated Palestine and struck American Interests? That’s why we went to war in Iraq, innit?

    And can you flesh out “Can we still pull it out, yes.”? I didn’t know we had pushed it in. Into whom? Which end? (Nullus.)

  10. Jim-anti-C says:
    May 9, 2006 at 12:30 pm

    I have admitted there were mistakes and plenty of them. Does this mean they lied, nop, does this mean they’re unfit, no, it means that we have a tough time moving forward and we’d better start learning how to work together as a country and finish our tasks or it will be unimaginably worse if we *fail* in IRaq (as in pull out and let it fall into total chaos). Can this still happen, yes. Can we still pull it out, yes. Will it be tough? yes….

    Plenty of mistakes, but are they incompetent?
    –And with one voice they resounded: NO!!

    Plenty of untruths, but did they lie?
    –And with one voice they resounded: NO!!

    As for “fall into total chaos”, from where we are now that would be, what, a steep 6 inch drop?

  11. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 12:31 pm

    Holy Mother of the Prophet of the One True God! JimC’s got the fucking smoking gun!!

    So what happened next, JimC, do tell? They got volunteers, huh? They liberated Palestine and struck American Interests? That’s why we went to war in Iraq, innit?

    And can you flesh out “Can we still pull it out, yes.”? I didn’t know we had pushed it in. Into whom? Which end? (Nullus.)

    If you plan on being completely deranged then I won’t waste my time on you, besides, I highly suspect that you are one of the regulars on here using an alias to hide your stupidity so as to not have your “regular” handle tied to said stupidity….that’s ok, children often play games and are affraid to own up to their own statements…

  12. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 12:33 pm

    As for “fall into total chaos”, from where we are now that would be, what, a steep 6 inch drop?

    Perhaps from your frieghtened little point of view, don’t worry little one, the adults will make the boogie men go away…

  13. Jim-anti-C says:
    May 9, 2006 at 12:45 pm

    Lame. Really, really, lame.

  14. Jim-anti-C says:
    May 9, 2006 at 12:47 pm

    Lame. Really, really, lame.

    And I’m willing to submit that to binding arbitration, too. Let Matt and Jason and Sarabeth draw up a list of names, and throw darts to pick out a name at random, and submit this for adjudication.

  15. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 12:59 pm

    And I’m willing to submit that to binding arbitration, too. Let Matt and Jason and Sarabeth draw up a list of names, and throw darts to pick out a name at random, and submit this for adjudication.

    Let me know when you do so that I can respond properly….

  16. Jim-anti-C says:
    May 9, 2006 at 1:01 pm

    If you plan on being completely deranged then I won’t waste my time on you, besides, I highly suspect that you are one of the regulars on here using an alias to hide your stupidity so as to not have your “regular” handle tied to said stupidity….that’s ok, children often play games and are affraid to own up to their own statements…

    I don’t see what business it is of yours, but rather than feed your delusions, let me just clear this up. I wandered in from the Daou Report, which linked an 1115 piece. Looked around a bit, and danged if I didn’t find you.

    I imagine you havn’t heard of the Daou Report, JimC, but feel free to check it out…

  17. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 2:21 pm

    I imagine you havn’t heard of the Daou Report, JimC, but feel free to check it out…

    Link? But if it links to here I can bet its not a conservative site then…

  18. seamus says:
    May 9, 2006 at 4:35 pm

    An Iraqi general claims that the WMDs moved to Syria. It’s plausible, but probably untrue. Most foreign analyses I’ve read of this claim suggest that Saddam didn’t have operational WMDs or even a real program, but told some of his generals that he did to keep morale high.

  19. jamie beth says:
    May 9, 2006 at 6:47 pm

    hey sarabeth, how ya doin? just checking in to make sure you are ok…hope your head isn’t exploding as you hold your breath so as not to get involved with this one. i’m thinking of you as i hold my breath. girl-power! heart jamiebeth

  20. sarabeth says:
    May 9, 2006 at 9:04 pm

    I’m managing to keeping my nose clean. Thanks for asking; helps to keep me on the straight and narrow. And may we both never fall from grace again.

  21. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 9:07 pm

    Come on ladies, where is the love?

  22. JimC says:
    May 9, 2006 at 9:11 pm

    An Iraqi general claims that the WMDs moved to Syria. It’s plausible, but probably untrue. Most foreign analyses I’ve read of this claim suggest that Saddam didn’t have operational WMDs or even a real program, but told some of his generals that he did to keep morale high.

    There are many reports of satellite photos of the convoy that took the WMD’s into Syria and Israeli intel confirms it was with the aid of Russia…

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1143498852297&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

  23. matt says:
    May 9, 2006 at 9:17 pm

    There are many reports of satellite photos

    there are also many reports of elvis sightings, virgin mary statues crying, stigmata, spontaneous combustion, etc.

  24. JimC says:
    May 10, 2006 at 5:27 am

    Did you read that link? Its pretty scathing against Bush but supports the idea that the WMDs went to Syria, you should read it…

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1143498852297&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

  25. marc says:
    May 10, 2006 at 5:50 am

    An Iraqi general claims that the WMDs moved to Syria. It’s plausible, but probably untrue. Most foreign analyses I’ve read of this claim suggest that Saddam didn’t have operational WMDs or even a real program, but told some of his generals that he did to keep morale high.

    I always assumed the whole WMD pretense was a smokescreen to keep Iran at bay.

  26. sarabeth says:
    May 10, 2006 at 7:03 am

    You mean the original WMD pretense, the one by Saddam?

  27. JimC says:
    May 10, 2006 at 7:28 am

    I always assumed the whole WMD pretense was a smokescreen to keep Iran at bay.

    If you read some of the translated captured Iraqi documents, they are starting to paint a picture that either Saddam had an elaborate deception to fool his own military, or he had WMD/WMD programs…

  28. marc says:
    May 10, 2006 at 7:43 am

    You mean the original WMD pretense, the one by Saddam?

    Yes, that one.

  29. Nailed Saviour says:
    May 10, 2006 at 8:01 am

    There are many reports of satellite photos of the convoy that took the WMD’s into Syria

    So, they fucked up. Is that your final answer?

  30. sarabeth says:
    May 10, 2006 at 8:02 am

    There are many reports of satellite photos of the convoy that took the WMD’s into Syria

    So, they fucked up. Is that your final answer?

    Returned to sender. Addressee unknown.

  31. JimC says:
    May 10, 2006 at 8:17 am

    So, they fucked up. Is that your final answer?

    If the WMDs were shipped to Syria before we invaded and that’s why we haven’t found them, sure, call it whatever you want, if it makes you happy to say that Bush failed to stop them from hiding their weapons in Syria, yes, there was a failure.

    That would be a more legitimate criticism than simply accusing them of lying…