How It Is
by matt at 6:00 am on March 21st, 2006 in Iraq WarI’m away, and without steady access to the internets, but I wanted to add something to the bizarre little dustup a few posts below.
Since we have a new contender bucking for Jim C’s seat at the table, I want to address this misdirected, pathetic little rant lest this get out of hand:
In other words, no matter what we do, you’re going to be opposed to it, and you’re going to see it in a negative light. You disgust me. You’re no better than the most base, racist, uneducated hick, who judges others based on pre-conceived notions and refuses to even acknowledge the possibility that he may be wrong. You are everything that I loathe in the human race.
The name-calling was unfounded and unacceptable. If you have anger issues, I suggest hitting the gym. Sarabeth showed remarkable restraint in overlooking that foolishness, I won’t.
We’ve seen the substantive(?) argument before: You can’t criticize the President or his administration or the military or the Iraqis or anyone else for the Iraq clusterfuck because:
a) we’re in it and failure is not an option
and/or
b) you can only criticize if you have the magic wand that make everything all good
In a word, no. I and many like-minded people on both sides of the aisle wrote many things before and during the war designed to call attention to things that needed to change so that the present situation might be avoided. In every way, these suggestions were ignored in favor of political expediency, ideology, negligence, and gross incompetence.
I suggested patience in order to build a real coalition, rather than alienating our allies. I suggested using a conventional-sized force rather than Donald Rumsfeld’s wet dream of a “lighter, faster fighting force.” I suggested sealing the borders rather than leaving them wide open in order to later blame a phantom foreign insurgency. I suggested opening up reconstruction contracts and peacekeeping to nations that didn’t necessarily participate in the “liberation” so that the burden could be shared instead of allowing Halliburton to steal taxpayer funds with impunity. I suggested setting up a more realistic roadmap to an Iraqi government in place of the system of artificial deadlines and unwarranted favoritism.
Anyone who expects me (or really anyone who sees the war as an abject failure) to sit on my hands and bite my tongue because I don’t have the magic beans is deluded. Anyone who expects me to believe a word this administration says on anything simply hasn’t been paying attention over the last several years. Anyone who expects the President’s political opponents to pass up the opportunity to use his incompetence against his supporters in Congress is clueless. For one of those people to then come in here and insult one of our writers and whine about our negative viewpoint isn’t going to fly. Period.
As Matt Tobey said, the puppy’s dead. That’s just how it is.
Alex wrote:
I have no problem with well founded constructive criticizm. What I object to, what I LOATHE, is your insistance on casting EVERYTHING in a negative light. That sort of hatred-based criticism is not only absolutely useless, but counterproductive to even your own supposed goals. It demonstrates quite clearly that you’re not opposed to any one aspect of the ongoing operations, but to the entire concept of US troops being in Iraq. You think it was a mistake to go? That’s fine. Criticize the decision to go to war all you like, I won’t make much more than a very basic effort to disagree with you because I understand that we’re going to have differing opinion regaurdless of what the facts are. You want to criticize some aspect of the ongoing operations? Sure, have at ‘er. I have a much better understanding of the situation on the ground than you could ever hope to aquire, but if being an archair-tactician turns you on then have fun with it. However, your constant criticism of EVERY aspect of the operations makes it clear that you won’t be happy untill all operations cease. And more than likely, if we were to pull out today you’d then proceed to criticize us for letting Iraq descend into civil war. In other words, there’s absolutely nothing we can do to please you. It’s like the Palestine/Israel debate – it’s become quite clear over time that the majority of Israel’s critics won’t be happy untill Israel ceases to exist. YOU won’t be happy untill Bush is out of office and the US ceases all international operations. In both cases, the scenario you desire is impossible, but instead of making an effort to find some middle-ground, you cling to your extremeist ideology as if it were not only realistic but the only possible solution. Keep it up if you want, just don’t expect to have any influence on what we do.
Posted 21 Mar 2006 at 7:58 am ¶
Matthew Tobey wrote:
Dead Puppies Aren’t Much Fun
Posted 21 Mar 2006 at 8:21 am ¶
sarabeth wrote:
Just some random thoughts.
–A little late in the day to try to sound reasonable?
–Alex: the lean, mean, one-man loathe machine
–”I have no problem with well founded constructive criticizm” — try practicing what you preach, buddy
–”YOU won’t be happy untill Bush is out of office and the US ceases all international operations.” Not even close. First he has to be impeached, yes. (Where did “cease all international operations come from?” We just get out of Iraq and shut down Guantanamo.) Then we put Bush on public display in the Washington mall, in some appropriate 21st century version of the stocks, for 2 weeks. Then we let graduates of Abu Ghraib subject him to 4 weeks of the perfectly legal interrogation tactics we practiced there. He gets to sleep for 4 hours at that point. A quick extraordinary rendition later, we give the Guantanamo graduates equal rights for 4 weeks in some remote desert country or uninhabited island. Unsupervised. He gets to sleep once in a while, but all food intake is via force-feeding. Then it’s Cindy Sheehan’s turn. And then after that…
–Why do the JimCs and Alexes of this world always have such poor spelling skills?
–Mind-reading isn’t your forte, baby. Cease and desist.
–A merry christmas and a very happy new year to you too
Posted 21 Mar 2006 at 9:08 am ¶
Fernando wrote:
Alex, you’re palpably upset that the Iraq war is shown in a negative light here on 1115. You simply can’t envision a scenario where positive things would be said about the situation in Iraq. I disagree. I think that even the “liberal” media would report large-scale successes in Iraq if they were occurring. But they aren’t. The highest level of debate about Iraq right now is primarily concerned with whether or not the conflict is a sustained insurgency or a civil war. Either way, tens of thousands of Iraqs are dead and there is no end in sight.
That doesn’t mean that small-scale successes aren’t being made and reported on by the media; look at this month’s Atlantic if you want to see that in action.
I’m going to pull out a card that I very rarely use, because I feel that it isn’t generally conducive to conversation. In this case, however, I think it’s warranted.
I fought in that war, Alex, so you’ll forgive me if I think that your label of “armchair tactician” does not apply to me. I can tell you firsthand about how naive the mindset of our commanders was; everyone in the brass was convinced by the administration’s “We shall be greeted as liberators” dogma. The invasion was brutal and horrifying (as all armed conflict is) but it was a cakewalk by 20th century war standards. Caught between the notions of being liberators and being a small dynamic force, we had neither the training nor the personnel to win the peace afterwards.
And that’s why so many people, including many of those here at 1115 are negative about the war. If you think our couching of the war in critical terms is tiresome, realize that we only do it to counterpoint the constant unwarranted and unrealistic positivity of the Bush administration and the uncritical media mouthpieces that speak for them.
Posted 21 Mar 2006 at 1:37 pm ¶
matt wrote:
What are my goals, chief?
and?
sorry, we’ll need some kind of proof. or else don’t try to puff yourself up.
that or some semblance of competence thus-far beyond the reach of the clowns in power.
i have some news for you: they are in civil war. and even if you want to believe otherwise, i’m sorry. but either way, the bush administration policies have closed off many options. the decision to go to war unprepared in the first place sealed this fate.
we? are you in the administration?
it’s always productive to use that as an example. always.
that’s not even true. i’ll be really happy if the dems manage not to screw up the elections and get subpoena power. that would be 2 years before C+ Augustus is out of office.
why again is it my responsibility to find this mythic middle ground? isn’t the president supposed to be the uniter not divider?
show me a non-republican who does have any influence on what “we” do?
Posted 21 Mar 2006 at 6:12 pm ¶
skyview satellite wrote:
Alex, you have indeed perfectly articulated my personal position with regards to the Bush administration and the GOP: I intend to be critical of everything, everything, everything, everything they do at every turn. I can honestly promise that at no point in the future will I ever say anything like, “You know, I think Cheney was correct on that one point.” Fuck him always.
Should this leave you anything to feel positive about as you continue your humble and noble search for middle ground? Well, there is this: most of the national and global malice directed at Bush and his ilk seems to be limited to them, their policies, their philosophies, and their activities. It has yet to fully extend to their extrapolitical supporters. There is as of yet no reason to assume that every GOP supporter is also a criminal, a spy, an anti-intellectual vandal, a dishonest, amoral Machiavellian racketeer, a senseless bungler and a bullying smart-ass who is actively dismantling the constitutional rule of law in my country. No reason at all. Surely we can agree on that?
Posted 21 Mar 2006 at 7:14 pm ¶
DCeiver wrote:
Our good friend Alex has an a priori problem. You see, Alex, if the DECISIONS weren’t so stupid, so crackheaded, there’d be no room to criticize! So, you should go yell at George Bush, and convince him that he needs to make better decisions.
Here’s a Hint: Attacking a country of no strategic importance in order to turn it into an al Qaeda playground and guarantee that it will be plunged into a civil war (an obvious outcome considering the “nation” of “Iraq” is an arbitrary line drawn around three groups of people who despise each other by British people who were glossing over their own crackheaded decisions of earlier decades)=a BAD DECISION.
Posted 21 Mar 2006 at 8:38 pm ¶
Otter wrote:
“what I LOATHE, is your insistance on casting EVERYTHING in a negative light.”
There is something positive in this confrontation Alex? I’m sorry I must have missed it, I was busy cleaning the blood out of my eyes.
Posted 21 Mar 2006 at 8:48 pm ¶
skyview satellite wrote:
Jules: Oh man, I will never forgive yo ass for this. This is some fucked-up, repugnant shit.
Vincent: Jules, did you ever hear the philosophy that once a man admits he’s wrong, then he’s automatically forgiven of that wrongdoing?
Jules: Man, get out of my face with that shit. The motherfucker who said that never had to pick up itty bitty pieces of skull on account of your dumb ass.
Posted 21 Mar 2006 at 9:48 pm ¶
screwtape wrote:
I used to adore the word “loathe”. I used it often. Now, I am going to have to find a different word. Alex ruined it.
Posted 22 Mar 2006 at 6:18 pm ¶
screwtape wrote:
sounds kind of like one of those sports fans who so closely identifies with his team he refers to them as “us”. “We beat the redskins last week.” Oh, you did, did you? That’s funny. I don’t recall seeing you in uniform.
“We won the election! We have political capital we are going to spend! Whoooo!”
So, Alex, unless you won an election or work in the Whitehouse, perhaps as Karl Rove’s leatherslave, get a grip.
Posted 22 Mar 2006 at 6:31 pm ¶
Matthew Tobey wrote:
Looks like Alex might have already had his fill of our loathesomeness. Either that or he got deployed.
Posted 23 Mar 2006 at 6:59 am ¶