Ouch

It’s not really fair to use the front page to call people out, but there’s really no other venue for ending arguments like this:

Inside the Puzzle Palace: A Reason interview with NSA whistleblower Russell Tice:

We’re finding out that NSA conducted surveillance on U.S. citizens. And FISA could have been used but wasn’t, was sidestepped. No one even made the attempt to see if they had a problem they could have fixed through FISA.
[...]
As a signals intelligence officer, kids who go right out of college and work for the NSA, this is drilled into you, especially when you’re young: You will not do this. This is number one of the NSA’s Ten Commandments: You will not spy on Americans. Even after you’ve had all those introductory briefings when you’re a new employee, for the rest of your career, at least twice a year they call you in for a briefing, and this is always covered. “You will not do this,” they shake their fingers at you. “If you do this you can be thrown in jail.” And all of a sudden you find out the people who’ve been shaking their fingers are doing what they’re telling you is against the law and coming out with some cockeyed nonsense excuses for why everything’s OK. It’s sort of like having your parents drill it into you not to smoke cigarettes or do drugs or whatever, and then after you’re a good little boy coming home from school at 15 and finding your parents out on the balcony doing all that.

Fear rules the day right now. For the most part, people know, NSA employees know, that this is wrong, that this is illegal. In many cases they feel betrayed by their own leadership…
[...]
When it comes to high crimes and misdemeanors, knowingly and willingly doing this and then being arrogant about it and saying we’re going to continue doing it—I would certainly think falls into that category of high crimes.

Spy Agency Data After Sept. 11 Led F.B.I. to Dead Ends:

In the anxious months after the Sept. 11 attacks, the National Security Agency began sending a steady stream of telephone numbers, e-mail addresses and names to the F.B.I. in search of terrorists. The stream soon became a flood, requiring hundreds of agents to check out thousands of tips a month.

But virtually all of them, current and former officials say, led to dead ends or innocent Americans.
[...]
“We’d chase a number, find it’s a schoolteacher with no indication they’ve ever been involved in international terrorism – case closed,” said one former F.B.I. official, who was aware of the program and the data it generated for the bureau. “After you get a thousand numbers and not one is turning up anything, you get some frustration.”

Comments

  1. Nick in Beantown says:

    >“We’d chase a number, find it’s a schoolteacher with no indication they’ve ever been involved in international terrorism – case closed,”

    Those schoolteachers must have been using the Arabic numerals in math class.

    hehe

  2. Jim gets a whole post served to him and him alone on a silver platter, and he just ignores it. Where I come from, that’s just bad manners.

  3. JimC says:

    Ignore it, I didn’t see it, unlike you guys, this isn’t my job to watch this site…

    The fact that “case closed” when they found out it was a school teacher, means they are protecting citizens rights. This program they’re using is called Echelon. During Clinton’s admin, had you called your pals and mentioned something like a plot to do something that I won’t even type here, it would flag that and the FBI would have been informed and you would have been taken in for questioning. This is the same program today….

    So if you want to gripe gripe about the FBI or NSA but don’t attribute it to Bush….

  4. >unlike you guys, this isn’t my job to watch this site…

    Right.

    >This program they’re using is called Echelon.

    Dude, I know what fucking Echelon is. I’ve seen every episode of Alias too. Saying Echelon every time we talk about the wiretapping scandal isn’t going to make it true. The goddamned administration doesn’t even claim it’s Echelon. They’ve admitted it. They’re tapping wires, they’re going to contiune to do it, and if we don’t like it, we can go abstinence ourselves.

    I’ll tell you what though, if it ends up being Echelon, I’ll eat a turd out of the same butthole you’re pulling this Echelon stuff out of.

  5. JimC says:

    Do you honestly believe they are placing random wiretaps out there? Hmmm? Where else then are they getting their “hits” from? This is what Echelon does, it picks keywords out of conversations, emails, etc. and flags them to be analyzed. Once analyzed, they determine if it requires further surveillance. Then and only then is a “wiretap” done. It is at this point the NSA program kicks in that Bush authorized. Everything else is pre-Bush…

  6. If only it was random. If only.

  7. JimC says:

    Ahhh, again, making assumptions that the FBI or NSA targeted specific people without cause for suspicion of terrorism…

    ok…

    Nothing in the post of this topic even suggests the Bush authorized portion of the NSA programs was even involved at this point. What the above comments allude to is the lead generation of the Echelon (yes I mentioned it again :-P ) program. This has nothing to do with what President Bush authorized and everyone who thinks it does is compeltely ignorant of what has been going on for decades, and whcih came to its pinnacle during the Clinton Admin. Only after there has been established a suspicion of terroist activities would the Bush authorized NSA program of wiretapping international calls kick in.

    So, you guys can point fingers and quote sources all you want but until it is shown that the NSA wiretapped Americans not even suspected of terrorists activities, I beleive this controversy will go no where….